June 1, 2009 at 2:45 pm

I’ll be watching. Thanks for the info, Chris.

The one thing that I really want to stress is that this entire “debate” is getting out of hand and seems to be perpetuating itself more to popularize a certain new “celebrity” on the book junket than to SERIOUSLY discuss issues of foreign policy that will impact MILLIONS of innocent peoples’ lives in Africa

and that can easily lead to the DEATHS of many of these people if targeted & transparent foreign assistance is removed from the Continent.

We all need to remember that this debate is not about replacing current programs or African governments
but about the real possibility of the further elimination of Life from that Continent.

When do we all PUT DOWN OUR DIFFERENCES and try to work together for Africa’s Future?

Hopefully Dambisa will agree to a “ceasefire” of hostilities tonight.

One can only hope….

AS ONE, debbie

June 1, 2009 at 3:28 pm

Dambisa should “Ceasefire” of hostilities? When do we “put aside our differences” Wasn’t ONE the organization that went after her with letters to NGOs and paid advertising to links online discrediting her book? Am I missing something here?
I’ll definitely be watching this tonight, Sachs should have found a way to show his face there too. This will be historic. Slowly, but surely, there is a rise in the African voice!

June 1, 2009 at 4:17 pm

And isn’t Dambisa the person who is trying to climb up the celebrity ladder by trying to mention the names of others who she has branded as “celebrities” (Bono, Madonna, etc) so that western media outlets pay attention to her?

Why did she allow herself to be branded as the “Anti-Bono” in an attempt to gain the public’s attention for her ideas and then do all that she could to attack the same people whose back that she rode into the public eye to gain her own celebrity status?

How disingenuous is that ?

So, please don’t come into these discussions with the same old tired out arguments that we have all heard AD NASEUM in this blog from Dambisa’s followers

because there is enough finger-pointing to go around on all sides.

If Ms. Moyo wants to stand above the fray of fractionalism & continued debate that does not lead Africa anywhere but down a more divisive path, then she would see the brilliance of offering to be the first one to extend a hand of peace, a truce , a ceasefire, in this debate for Africa’s sake

and ask the other side if they would be willing to join her in a sincere attempt to MODEL for African governments how disparate segments of society CAN work together for the good of all.

I would love to see that happen…..or if not, then maybe she should start her campaign at home and return to Zambia to help pres. Banda clean up the corruption in his own government.

It’s kind of hard to go around the world moralizing to others about how they should behave with African countries when your own African governmnet is apparently rife with corruption!

Dambisa – take the pluck out of your own government’s eye first before you come here to moralize to me.

PLEASE !!!!!!!!

All the Best, debbie

PS: the above are my own words & have not been solicited by any other source ~

June 1, 2009 at 6:16 pm

Debbie, Debbie, Debbie there you are again, I was wondering where you had gone. Maybe you should fix the poverty in America before worrying about Africa. How does that sound? Nonsensical, right? You seem offended that there is someone who differs with your opinion, whatever happened to freedom of expression? or is that courtesy extended to Africans? Just curious.

June 1, 2009 at 11:32 pm

Debbie,

I am really tired and sick of people like you. Why are you so much worried about Africa, when you have so much poverty in your own country. The “Aid agencies ” or as i would like to call them ” the Poverty advocates “has done more harm than any good to the continent. you have no idea how much, hundreds of Africans are delighted that a new voice is emerging that offers a radical approach to Africa economic development. The free market together with good governance are the key pillars of Africa economic development. Africa can safe itself, it doesn’t need the assistance of outsiders with a paternalistic mindset toward Africa.

June 2, 2009 at 7:36 am

Hello,

Reducing poverty locally and globally should not be mutually exclusive. We can do both and with Obama in power, I believe our chances of doing it this way are higher than perhaps previously. The amount of aid given to Africa is so minute that the tax breaks of billionaires pays more. There is something deeply amiss that is causing and maintaining poverty not only locally but also abroad. States like Sweden treat other nations like their own. They are competitive, rank high on several quality of life UN lists, and have already given up and above the 0.7% commitment. It is easy to see that taking care of ones own and helping others is compatible. It is curious how the United States is still last (or near last) when considering the percentage of GDP given.

The celebrity image is smart. With globalization creating a new culture of celebrity zeal, it would make sense to enter this culture if you wanted to make global change and achieve critical mass. At the same time though, I agree with you Debbie that there doesn’t really seem to be much of a debate on whether their should be aid but on how the aid should be given. Even though Dambisa proposes to eradicate aid in 5 years, she admits that her focus is to end corruption and the waste of money. This could ultimately lead to better aid reforms which fits in very well with ONE and the Make Poverty History Campaign. If too many people jump on the band wagon and end aid altogether, I feel it could be seriously detrimental to those who have no margin for survival, particularly as climate change makes increasingly difficult. I can see the intelligence behind ONE’s reactionary advertisements.

I do agree with you Sylvan, would have been great to hear Sachs.

June 2, 2009 at 8:43 am

Mark, you seem very sober, and thats the kind of debate thats welcome, unlike the vtriol which keeps popping up. On your point of Dr. Moyo calling for the end of Aid in 5n years, I think thats more of a red herring. he gave that as an example, and she has repeatedly said (even in last night’s Munk debates) that the issue is not 5 years or 10 years, its just that there should be an end date set so that African governments can plan and not expect Aid to always be there.

June 2, 2009 at 10:19 am

Dead Aid:

“What if, one by one, African countries each received a phone call (agreed upon by all their major donors – the World Bank, Western countries, etc.) telling them that in exactly five years the aid taps would be shut off – permanently? Although exceptions would be made for isolated emergency relief such as famine and natural disasters, aid would no longer attempt to address Africa’s generic economic plight.
What would happen?”

(pg. 144)

In her own book, Moyo raises more than once the idea of ALL foreign assistance being ended to African governments in FIVE years – not in ten years, as she has recently revised her public statements.

She has also been observed in her earlier televised interviews this year responding to the concern of foreign assistance programs such as PEPFAR being eliminated & the risk to millions of African peoples’ lives that such a stoppage of foreign assistance would bring with her inane response – “Do you think that foreign countries should have to fund African governments’ health care programs indefinitely?” or words to that effect. (C-Span Q & A program)

You will now find Ms. Moyo stating that she would not be against programs such as PEPFAR that she now claims are more “humanitarian” than foreign aid.

The fact that Moyo has backtracked on two of the benchmark points in her book indicates the pressure that public scrutiny has put on her ideas. In response to serious questions raised concerning the flaws in her reasoning & in her ideas, she has had to retract & retrace her viewpoints on these two issues.

Her supporters can try to frame this discussion as much as they want on side issues but they flip-flop all the time in their responses in the ONE Blog and elsewhere in their defense of Ms. Moyo.

That is because the tide has turned in the media’s fascination with this book & its author and thus, her defenders have to continually change their perspectives to attempt to maintain the impressions that Dambisa has a coherent & plausible alternative to the present situation that African countries find themselves in.

As I have stated time & time again in discussions in this Blog & elsewhere to Mr. Kibaya & others, NO ONE in our movement to end AIDS & extreme poverty wants to see African countries dependent on foreign aid indefinitely.

We would also like to see an African Continent which is independent & strong. THIS POINT IS A COMMON THREAD WHICH COULD UNITE US – but Moyo & her supporters have historically rejected trying to work together with ONE & other organizations to see where the common threads were so that we could try to speed up the day of strong & independent African countries from any sorts of economic dependency from other countries.

It is well known that representatives of this organization met more than once with Dambisa before the release of her book to try to find a common thread, a middle ground with her from which we could all unite & work together on solutions for Africa’s Future but she rejected the idea of working together for Africa’s Future.

Who is ACTUALLY standing in the way of an independent & strong African Continent – those who want to find common ground & see if we can work together on issues or those who stubbornly want to go their own way, without regard to what continued in-fighting amongst us ultimately does to a Continent that is desperate to get up off its knees?

Ms. Moyo’s supporters can try to brand me all they want as vitriolic when I am simply stating the truth in direct details – that is to be expected from those who do not have much to offer that is positive.

I have asked for all sides in this debate to stop the “war of words” & to find ways to work together for Africa’s Future. I’m sorry that Ms. Moyo & her followers do not see the value of this idea.

Living Positively, debbie

June 2, 2009 at 10:36 am

How delusional can you be? The quote from her book starts with “WHAT IF..” Thats a hypothetical. I was tempted not to respond, but I am amazed that Debbie cannot understand that “WHAT IF” is akin to “for example”. And why do you assume Africans “NEED” your help. We want to be equal partners. You walk around with this belief that there is a group of people who are incapable of taking care of themselves, and so its up to YOU to save us. Its up to you to help us prosper, not save us. Thank you very much!

June 2, 2009 at 10:37 am

I think Dr. Moyo means ‘What if’ as in ‘for example’ or am I mistaken?

June 9, 2009 at 3:33 am

To prove Dambisa’s point……….currently there’s a case going on in Zambia for the theft of K27 billion ( $5million) by a Health Department Human resources official . Most of this money is Aid money . Sweden and the Netherlands have frozen $33 million in aid to Zambia because of the alleged corruption in the country’s health ministry. Now the Zambian Government is panicking, unable to meet the shortfall…….
I am Zambian, but I support Swedishn and Dutch and wish other countries can follow suit, until people are held accountable and actually convicted and we see a change in admistration…….This is just a tip of the iceburg of what is happening with Aid money. Think about it.. if a human resource official can steal so much, what about his bosses? After so much Aid and so many years of it, why aren’t things any better….. Aid in this case has done more harm as it has produced greedy leaders and official and they steal so much that they leave absolutely nothing for the needy. None of the Zambian Ministers and their families use the Zambian healtgh care…they fly to South African to get the best…..so where is the Aid money going……. No more Aid, please..

Anguished Zambian.